Dealing with narcissists is like unknowingly stepping into a tornado and wondering why you’re being thrown around. It’s not until you step out of the chaos that you can accurately identify it as a tornado; then everything makes sense.
Psychological abuse can leave deep and lasting scars, affecting all aspects of a person’s life. Healing from such toxic relationships requires resilience, support, and effective strategies. As a part of this series, I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Chelsey Brooke Cole.
Chelsey Brooke Cole is a licensed psychotherapist, bestselling author, coach, and speaker specializing in narcissistic abuse and relational trauma. Chelsey speaks at HR and counseling conferences and national organizations on narcissism in the workplace, how to communicate with difficult people, emotional intelligence, and effective therapeutic strategies for narcissistic abuse survivors. She is the author of If Only I’d Known! How to Outsmart Narcissists, Set Guilt-Free Boundaries, and Create Unshakeable Self-Worth. Chelsey’s content provides support to thousands of narcissistic abuse survivors each day through her thriving online community.
Thank you so much for joining us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’?
Growing up, I was always interested in understanding why people do what they do. Some of my favorite pastimes were reading self-help books and listening to therapist Dr. Laura Schlessinger’s radio show where she helped people deal with life’s issues. Consequently, I knew from a young age I wanted to help people and be a psychotherapist.
What I didn’t know at the time was that I was already dealing with the effects of having a narcissistic father, and how that would shape the rest of my career. Some common outcomes of having a narcissistic parent include constantly reaching for perfection, having extremely high personal expectations, and never feeling good enough. I definitely experienced those, which pushed me to start university at sixteen, graduate with my master’s at twenty-two, and immediately start working as a therapist.
I was especially drawn to helping people in relationships, and I started to notice certain patterns in my client’s relationships and in my own relationships at the time. These patterns included constantly trying to make the relationship better, never feeling like you’re enough, ruminating about conversations because they didn’t make any sense, and experiencing cyclical highs and lows, despite your best efforts to maintain the “good days.”
And all the conventional relationship advice that tells you to treat these conflicts as a “communication issue” or “mismatch in attachment styles” never made the relationships any better — in fact, it only made them worse. So, out of my own desperation and trying to help my clients, I started looking for answers and came across the term “narcissism” which had only been briefly skimmed over in my graduate coursework.
And from this framework, everything started to make sense. This “ah ha” moment, along with several months of study and self-reflection, empowered me to end my current narcissistic relationship (although it wasn’t the first or last time I would deal with a narcissist), and helped me provide clients with the clarity, validation, and healing they needed to set healthy boundaries and take their power back.
Since then, l’ve specialized in narcissistic abuse, relational trauma, CPTSD and helping people “make sense” of the relationships that seem so senseless.
Can you share with us the most interesting story from your career? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘takeaways’ you learned from that?
Having worked with thousands of clients spanning almost a decade, it’s hard to pick just one story. However, I can definitely see themes emerging from my clients’ stories.
Clients who are experiencing narcissistic abuse often come to therapy with a mix of confusion, anxiety, and shame. They don’t understand what’s happening in their relationship. They don’t know why they can’t seem to make things better. They wonder if they really are as “messed up” or “broken” as their parent/partner/boss/friend says they are, and they’re terrified that maybe they are the problem and they’re destined to a life of toxic, unfulfilling relationships.
These same clients who worry endlessly that they’re the problem also put in the most effort to make things better. They read the communication and relationship books. They take the personality assessments. They listen more, ask for less, and ignore their needs. They give until they don’t even know who they are anymore because they’re consumed with sacrificing their time and attention to meet everyone else’s needs and requests.
And at the same time, they’re being told that they’re selfish, inconsiderate, and ungrateful. That they think of only themself. That they’re impossible to talk to, difficult to work with, and have completely unrealistic standards for the relationship.
Due to the amount of gaslighting, projection, denial, and minimization that happen in these relationships, healing is first about recognizing that these things are even happening! Narcissistic abuse is like being in a room full of poison gas and wondering why you’re getting sick. You must know what room you’re in to realize where the real harm is coming from; otherwise, you blame yourself, which only makes you sicker.
Once clients learn about topics like trauma bonds, defense mechanisms, antagonism, gaslighting, triangulation, and how narcissists operate, they often experience three major realizations: this isn’t about me, this isn’t my fault, and there’s nothing I can do to change this.
These realizations naturally come with sorrow and grief. But they also come with relief. It’s like you’ve been carrying an invisible 100-pound weight on your back and someone finally sees it and tells you that you don’t have to carry it anymore.
Clients feel seen, validated, heard, and understood. They feel motivated to focus on what they can do and empowered to set boundaries. And most of all, they learn how to take their mental real estate back. They learn how to get the narcissist’s voice out of their head, listen to their intuition, and feel safe enough to trust their own voice.
As a psychotherapist, it’s my greatest honor and joy to help clients make these mental and emotional shifts. From these experiences, I’ve learned that we’re all so much more alike than we are different. Ironically, one of the most universal fears shared by trauma survivors is that “I’m the only one who’s experiencing this” or “No one else is as messed up as me.” But experiencing those fears means there are millions of other people who feel just like you.
And I don’t say millions for dramatic effect — I literally mean millions. Lifetime prevalence rates of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are roughly six percent. That means in the United States almost 20 million people meet the criteria for NPD. If those 20 million narcissists negatively impact five other people (a conservative estimate) that means 99 million people will experience some form of narcissistic abuse in the United States alone.
The takeaway: you are not alone! You’re not crazy. You’re not broken. You’re not who the narcissist says you are. And there are millions of us who understand what you’re going through.
You are a successful leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Calm — I’m a huge introvert. This means I need lots of downtime in solitude and time for self-reflection. It also means I listen more than I talk and tend to be slow to speak. In the therapy room, this translates to me having a very calm presence. I give clients space to feel heard and want them to know I’m in it with them.
Empathetic — Empathy isn’t about imagining how you would feel in a certain situation; it’s imagining how the other person, given their unique background, needs, and personality, feels in that situation. I approach every client as a clean slate. Yes, I bring lots of experience to the therapy space, but I’m not the expert of what is best for that particular client. I focus on understanding what life is like from the client’s perspective and, most importantly, helping the client discover the healthiest version of themself.
Intuitive — I’m an INFJ on the Myers Briggs. This means I’m an “intuitive feeler” and have a strong desire to make a difference. It also means I look at the big picture to find connections. During therapy sessions, I’m listening to what the client is saying, while also looking for patterns, and considering how I can succinctly reflect this to the client. I trust my gut and “feel out” what the next best topic or response should be.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that might help people?
I’m very excited to say I’ll soon be opening a private group program/healing community to provide people a safe place to connect with other narcissistic abuse survivors and get ongoing, practical strategies to heal. The reality is that most of us can’t go “no contact” with the narcissist(s) in our lives. Narcissists can be our partner, parent, adult child, sibling, boss, or any person in between, which means we’re going to get triggered and need ongoing support to stay sane and healthy.
This group will be hosted on a private community platform off social media, which allows for more privacy and security. It will include a mix of live Q&As, interviews with other experts, exclusive healing-specific worksheets, and group discussion spaces based on specific topics (e.g., coparenting with a narcissist, dating after narcissistic abuse, dealing with narcissists during the holidays, etc.).
I believe this will help trauma survivors heal from universal fears — “I’m the only one going through this”; “No one is as messed up as me”; “I’m broken and defective” — as they’ll get to see that they’re not alone and connect with others who feel exactly like they do.
Survivors also need more than just information — they need practical strategies to deal with triggers, high conflict conversations, and anxious sensations. This healing community will provide “how to” strategies along with deeper insights and real conversations about dealing with a narcissist and healing from narcissistic abuse.
Ok, thank you for all that. Now let’s shift to the main focus of our interview. Let’s start with a simple definition so that we are all on the same page. How would you define a Toxic Relationship?
Toxic relationships make you feel consistently misunderstood, devalued, or less than and often include some form of emotional, verbal, sexual, financial, spiritual, or physical abuse.
What are the common signs of emotional, financial, and/or psychological abuse in various types of relationships (e.g., romantic, familial, professional)? How can individuals recognize and address these forms of abuse effectively?
Here are some signs that any type of relationship is toxic:
- You consistently feel disrespected or devalued.
- You feel like the relationship is out of balance, since you give more than you receive.
- When you try to share how you feel, the other person dismisses or invalidates your feelings.
- You don’t feel safe, emotionally or physically around them.
- You feel sick before, during, or after being around them.
- You invest a lot of emotional energy trying to make the relationship better or please the other person.
- You feel worse about yourself after being around them.
- They hide passwords to shared accounts or marital assets.
- They refuse to give you access to your personal or shared finances.
- They degrade your financial decisions or constantly question your spending habits.
- They consider you solely responsible for any financial hardships without regard for their own actions or how they’ve contributed to financial difficulties.
- They make derogatory comments about how much money you make or imply that your worth is tied to your financial contribution.
Your body gives you lots of warning signs that a relationship is toxic. If you feel sick thinking about spending time with someone, during the time with them, or after you’ve been with them, that’s a good sign there’s something wrong with this relationship.
Sometimes people see some of these warning signs, but not others. This can lead to more confusion, second-guessing, and self-blame. To gain more clarity about whether your relationship is toxic or not, follow these steps:
- Make a list of healthy and toxic behaviors.
Are there more times you feel respected than disrespected? Do you mostly feel listened to or dismissed? Are there certain topics that lead to more conflict than others and why? If it’s a toxic relationship, there will be more negative behaviors, like lying, being critical or rude, or disrespecting boundaries, than positive behaviors, like being respectful, empathetic, and patient.
2. Talk to the person about your concerns.
(This point comes with a caveat: only talk about your concerns if it’s safe to do so. If there is physical abuse of any kind, do not bring up your concerns to the abuser without first talking to a licensed professional.)
Use “I” statements, like “I feel __ when __” and see how the person responds. Are they willing and able to see your point of view? Do they allow you to keep your reality, even if they see it differently?
For example, maybe they said something that made you feel devalued, and when you told them about it, they acknowledged that they made you feel that way, even if that wasn’t their intention. In healthy relationships, you can agree to disagree or see the same situation differently, and still be respectful and compassionate.
3. Set boundaries based on what feels safe and healthy for you.
If you need to take a break or walk away once a conversation gets heated, you should be able to do that. Let the person know what your needs are and what changes need to happen in the relationship for it to feel safe and healthy for you.
4. Reassess the changes.
After you’ve followed the previous steps, see how you feel in a month or a few months. Do you feel any differently toward the person or relationship? Do you still feel like the relationship is toxic, or has the person shifted to respect your boundaries? Have they acknowledged your requests and are they actively working to support you in a healthy way or invest in their own personal growth? If yes, great! If not, it’s time to decide if more space, or parting ways, is needed in this relationship.
How can someone begin the healing process after leaving a toxic relationship? Based on your research or experience, can you please share your “5 Things You Need To Heal After A Toxic Relationship”?
1 . Know what you went through.
Dealing with narcissists is like unknowingly stepping into a tornado and wondering why you’re being thrown around. It’s not until you step out of the chaos that you can accurately identify it as a tornado; then everything makes sense.
This is how many survivors feel after narcissistic abuse — like they’ve been thrown around, messed up, and completely disoriented. That’s why it’s crucial for you to slow down, take a breath, and look around. Notice what you’ve been through. Make sense of what just happened.
This means learning about narcissism and narcissistic abuse. Of course, you don’t have to become an expert (although I think many survivors do reach this status). But you do want a foundational knowledge to answer basic questions like: “Why are narcissists so critical?” “Can they change?” “How does someone become a narcissist?” “Why did they treat me so poorly?” to reaffirm that this was not your fault.
2 . Acknowledge the pain.
Acknowledging the pain means acknowledging what happened to you and how it impacted you. It doesn’t mean you’re resigning yourself to feel this way forever. But it does mean that you don’t just gloss over it, act like it never happened, or expect yourself to “get over it” because it’s in the past.
What you went through was real. Every part of you deserves a chance to be heard and validated for that. And the most important person who needs to validate what you went through — is you.
3 . Get to know yourself.
Narcissists use your insecurities, self-doubts, and life history to make you believe you’re someone that you’re not. For example, if you’ve been betrayed in the past, they’ll say you have “trust issues” when you question them for being inconsistent instead of admitting that they’re lying. Or if they know getting divorced or growing old alone is one of your biggest fears, they’ll use abandonment threats like “No one can live up to your standards” to make you think the relationship issues are your fault.
But if you know your core wounds and trauma triggers and how they’ve impacted you, you’re less susceptible to this kind of manipulation. You can affirm to yourself, “I know that’s a trigger for me, but what they did is still not okay.”
Take time to slow down and pay attention to your thoughts, feelings, and sensations. Notice when you feel sad, cold, hungry, lonely, tired, happy, or excited. Make a list of your likes and dislikes, and if you aren’t sure what they are, try things until you figure it out!
View this time as an exploration inward. Working with a therapist or coach can help with this tremendously.
4 . Develop healthy boundaries.
Healthy boundaries aren’t just a good idea — they’re a narcissist-repellant. They keep the toxic people out and the healthy people in.
By the time you leave a narcissistic relationship, you likely feel responsible for a lot of things you can’t control (which also means you feel guilty for things that don’t make logical sense). So, boundaries aren’t just about walking away or disengaging from triggering comments — they’re about taking back your mental real estate.
Boundaries are about the mental and emotional shifts you make. It’s about owning your thoughts and feelings and untangling the narcissist’s voice from your mind. It’s about deciding that no one gets to tell you who you are — but you.
5 . Engage in post-traumatic growth strategies.
Post-traumatic growth refers to the positive changes that can occur after traumatic events or relationships. After narcissistic abuse, many survivors dedicate all or part of their life’s work to helping others in toxic relationships. Other survivors focus on holding more compassion and empathy for those who find it difficult to leave a toxic relationship, knowing personally how “sticky” these relationships can be.
Here are some steps to help you reach toward post-traumatic growth:
- Write down all the ways you tried to make the relationship work.
- Give yourself credit for those efforts.
- Reach out to someone in a difficult relationship and offer a listening ear.
- Start a support group in your community or church for those in toxic relationships.
- Notice the parts of your life you can control even if they seem small (e.g., the brand of toothpaste you get, what you eat for lunch, what you post on social media, etc.)
Following financial abuse, what actionable strategies can individuals employ to rebuild their lives and achieve financial independence? What resources are instrumental in this process?
It’s important to start slowly so you don’t get too overwhelmed. Begin with small steps, like knowing your monthly income and tracking your expenses. If you haven’t been working, start searching through job listings on sites like Indeed to see what might be available with your experience or education.
You can also contact job centers in your area to help you find a temporary or permanent job placement. Many local libraries host free workshops on creating a resume or how to find a job.
For those impacted by multiple forms of abuse, what comprehensive strategies and support systems are most effective in facilitating their healing journey?
In my work, most survivors have experienced multiple forms of abuse. Due to the manipulative nature of narcissistic and toxic people, they usually abuse their victims from many different angles. Therefore, the healing strategies and support systems are the same, whether you’ve experienced one form of abuse or many.
Comprehensive healing strategies include:
- Personal — journaling, meditating, exercising, reading
- Interpersonal — therapy, support groups
- Medical/holistic — doctors, physical therapists, massage, acupuncture
- Spiritual — church, religious organizations
- Financial — financial planner, nonprofit financial planning resources
- Legal — lawyer, paralegal, free online resources
Support systems include:
- Friends
- Church
- Extended family
- Online support groups
- Groups/pages on social media
What strategies can survivors use to rebuild their self-esteem and confidence?
- Metacognition: This means to think about your own thoughts. Notice what you’re thinking and how it makes you feel. You might even first be aware of bodily sensations, like a tightness in your chest or punch to the stomach, and then you can reflect on what thoughts led to that sensation and emotion. No judgment is needed here! You’re just learning to pay attention to your body’s cues and where they come from.
- Cognitive defusion: Put space between you and your thoughts. Instead of thinking, “I’m too sensitive!” rephrase it and say, “I’m having the thought that I’m too sensitive.” The former states it as a fact, while the latter states it as a passing thought, not as an absolute truth.
- Address cognitive distortions: Cognitive distortions are negative thinking states. Catastrophizing, mind reading, and emotional reasoning are common distortions for those with anxiety and depression. When you’re stuck in a cognitive distortion, it’s really hard to see the whole picture or have self-compassion. Learn about what these are, the most common ones you experience, and try catching yourself when you’re in a cognitive distortion. You might even use cognitive defusion by saying, “I’m having a cognitive distortion right now” which helps you recognize what you’re doing and choose a different way of thinking.
- Set small boundaries: If you find yourself people pleasing, practice setting limits on how often and when you’re available to help people. Instead of immediately saying “Yes” to people’s requests, say, “Let me check my schedule and get back to you” or “I’d love to help, but I’m not available this week.”
- Pick one thing a week/month to do for yourself: Building self-esteem means treating yourself as equally as valuable as anyone else! You likely help others a lot more than you help yourself. Start turning the tide to a more equal balance by picking one small thing to do for yourself, whether that be get a massage, read a book, make your favorite coffee, or sit outside and enjoy the breeze.
How can friends and family best support someone who is recovering from psychological abuse?
- Be positive and patient: Healing from psychological abuse takes time! Don’t assume that slow progress means no progress.
- Ask what they need from you: After a toxic relationship, most survivors feel like they’ve lost their voice, which means they need time, space, and encouragement to advocate for their needs. Instead of assuming what would be helpful, ask! It will help the survivor reflect on their needs and build more self-efficacy.
- Don’t give unsolicited advice: Be very careful about saying things like, “I think it’s time for you to move on” or “Aren’t you glad to be out of that relationship?” Healing from toxic relationships is a complicated grief process, so patience, understanding and support will go a long way!
What role does therapy play in recovering from psychological abuse, and how can one find the right therapist? Additionally, what tips do you have for overcoming common barriers to accessing therapy?
I suggest that survivors “interview” potential therapists as it’s important to find a good fit. If you’ve experienced toxic relationships, ask potential therapists these questions:
Do you have experience working with toxic relationships or narcissistic abuse?
Do you provide a trauma-informed approach? How so?
Are you familiar with the term “narcissism” and are you comfortable discussing narcissistic abuse?
You’re looking for the therapist to have experience in these areas and to acknowledge the significant impact of these relationships. If the therapist says things like, “Well, everyone is a little narcissistic” or “I can’t diagnose people who aren’t in the room” that’s not a good sign. The most important thing is that you feel emotionally safe and have a good rapport with the therapist. If you aren’t “feeling it,” trust your gut!
Many people need low-cost or insurance-covered therapy services. Unfortunately, therapists who have unique specialties are typically private pay only. However, there are still things you can do to get help and quality care:
- Many universities offer free or low-cost counseling services to the community via counseling interns. These are counseling or psychology graduate students who are being supervised by licensed professionals.
- Many people can get a certain number of counseling sessions covered by their EAP.
- Most therapists can provide you with a superbill, which you can provide to your insurance company to seek reimbursement. Contact your insurance company before starting therapy to see what CPT and diagnosis codes they cover.
Even if you can’t find a therapist that specializes in narcissistic abuse, you can advocate for what you need! Ask the potential therapist if they’re willing to read a certain book or learn about this topic so that you two can have a shared vocabulary. Many therapists are open to this and willing to learn with you and provide you with support.
Could you name a few organizations or professionals that provide crucial support for individuals seeking to restart their lives after experiencing abuse, particularly when they have dependents relying on them?
There are several organizations and professionals who specialize in helping people heal from toxic relationships!
Here are a few of them:
CBC Psychotherapy and Coaching — I offer several ways to help survivors, including free articles, a bimonthly newsletter, daily social media tips, my book, and soon my group program/healing community. I also work with people one-on-one via therapy or coaching.
Been There Got Out — Chris and Lisa are certified high conflict divorce coaches who specialize in legal abuse and coparenting issues.
Luna ET&C — Dr. Ramani offers several resources for narcissistic abuse survivors, including The Dr. Ramani Network and monthly healing program.
The National Domestic Violence Hotline — This site offers several resources to help survivors prepare to leave an abusive situation, especially if they have dependents. The chat feature enables survivors to safely chat with someone who can help them find domestic violence shelters or resources in their area.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
My mission is to help narcissistic abuse survivors, feel seen, validated, and understood. My ultimate goal would be for narcissistic abuse classes to be offered beginning in elementary school and going through high school. These classes would be developmentally appropriate to each age group.
So many toxic relationships could be avoided if we only knew what to look for. The reality is most of us aren’t taught these skills. We aren’t taught how to differentiate between toxic and healthy relationships or what a narcissist is and how they make us feel. We aren’t taught how to set healthy boundaries, build our self-esteem, or trust our gut.
But if we were… narcissists would have far less ability to manipulate us. These skills are vital and too many people are harmed by not knowing them!
This is why I titled my book, “If Only I’d Known!” My hope is that we can experience a global shift from “If only I’d known” to “I’m so glad I knew!”
What is the best way for our readers to continue to follow your work online?
All social media: @ChelseyBrookeCole
Join 40k+ survivors and get my free bimonthly newsletter: https://www.chelseybrookecole.com/newsletter
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent on this. We wish you only continued success.
About the Interviewer: Wanda Malhotra is a wellness entrepreneur, lifestyle journalist, and the CEO of Crunchy Mama Box, a mission-driven platform promoting conscious living. CMB empowers individuals with educational resources and vetted products to help them make informed choices. Passionate about social causes like environmental preservation and animal welfare, Wanda writes about clean beauty, wellness, nutrition, social impact and sustainability, simplifying wellness with curated resources. Join Wanda and the Crunchy Mama Box community in embracing a healthier, more sustainable lifestyle at CrunchyMamaBox.com .
